• Sign Up! To view all forums and unlock additional cool features

    Welcome to the #1 Dodge, Jeep and RAM Forum dedicated to FCA owners and enthusiasts. Register for an account, it's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the SRT Forum today!


E85 questions

Member ID
#1487
Messages
89
Reactions
141
Likes
27
City
ellenton
State
FL
Country
United States
Vehicle
2016 mango hellcat challenger
#61
It would seem that there are finally several stations reasonably close to me that now have E85 pumps.
So I am seriously considering doing the E85 switch at the end of the year.
So add set of ID1300 injectors to the engine and a tune.
Here's my question. All else being equal (no changes except for the larger injectors and tune), what kind of power increase am I looking at?
All else being equal - a good tuner will net you 8-10% increase in HP
 


OP
TMAC

TMAC

Active Member
Founding Member
Member ID
#998
Messages
211
Reactions
315
Likes
67
City
Mesa
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
2017 Dodge Challenger Hellcat
Thread Starter #62
All else being equal - a good tuner will net you 8-10% increase in HP
Not a bad increase. We figure it's going to make around 800 on the tire when tuned on 91, with the Boostane and meth injection. People have suggested it should be more, but I'm insisting on a conservative tune. To me, its not worth risking everything for another 30 or so HP. I talked to my tuner yesterday about the E54 vs E85 thing, and will continue to pursue this.

I've seen the term flex tune used. Does this mean that a single tune can adjust for varying levels of ethanol?
 


AlleyCat

500 Posts Club
9 Second Best E/T
Member ID
#1332
Messages
801
Reactions
724
Likes
82
City
Oro Valley
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
16 HC Challenger
#63
At Dyno now. After two hours of driving it did 929/975. It pulled timing. Iats hot .Lots of torque.
 


Attachments

AlleyCat

500 Posts Club
9 Second Best E/T
Member ID
#1332
Messages
801
Reactions
724
Likes
82
City
Oro Valley
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
16 HC Challenger
#64
A little cool down with e85. 955/1010
 


Attachments

MaxCarnage

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
10 Second Best E/T
HFCOTM
Wiki Contributor
Member ID
#979
Messages
500
Reactions
799
Likes
182
City
Spokane Valley
State
WA
Country
United States
Vehicle
19' Redeye
HFCOTM
View Images
#65
I've seen the term flex tune used. Does this mean that a single tune can adjust for varying levels of ethanol?
Yes from my understanding a true flex tune means you can toss any variation of ethanol in the tank and the tune will adjust as needed using the wideband sensors. HP tuners can see the alcohol content as well. I don't have any first hand experience of this, but this is what others have said.

However, the flex tune might not be as aggressive of a tune as a straight E85 tune would be (unsure on that), assuming both have E85. Not sure if the flex leaves more safety in the tune or not. Maybe someone can chime in on that.
 


Blkout

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1095
Messages
852
Reactions
1,380
Likes
132
City
Warner Robins
State
GA
Country
United States
Vehicle
2016 Challenger Hellcat
#66
Not a bad increase. We figure it's going to make around 800 on the tire when tuned on 91, with the Boostane and meth injection. People have suggested it should be more, but I'm insisting on a conservative tune. To me, its not worth risking everything for another 30 or so HP. I talked to my tuner yesterday about the E54 vs E85 thing, and will continue to pursue this.

I've seen the term flex tune used. Does this mean that a single tune can adjust for varying levels of ethanol?
Correct, with caveat that there's a limit to how much a flex tune can do to keep the engine safe. It cant overcome 17psi+ boost and even 16psi is on the edge but if you're running a pulley no smaller than 2.75 but preferably a 2.85, the tune will allow you to run any fuel you want and it will adjust accordingly. When you start getting to boost of 16psi+, there's only so much the tune can do to keep the car safe on 93 octane. When you start pushing boost in the 16psi+ range it really demands that you use better fuel than 93 octane.
 


Blkout

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1095
Messages
852
Reactions
1,380
Likes
132
City
Warner Robins
State
GA
Country
United States
Vehicle
2016 Challenger Hellcat
#67
Yes from my understanding a true flex tune means you can toss any variation of ethanol in the tank and the tune will adjust as needed using the wideband sensors. HP tuners can see the alcohol content as well. I don't have any first hand experience of this, but this is what others have said.

However, the flex tune might not be as aggressive of a tune as a straight E85 tune would be (unsure on that), assuming both have E85. Not sure if the flex leaves more safety in the tune or not. Maybe someone can chime in on that.
So that depends, Curt can leave a safety margin in the flex tune for guys like me that don't check their E85, or you can ask for an aggressive tune that gives you everything that E85 can provide assuming you know the quality of your E85.

My car made 871whp SAE with a 2.65 pulley on a conservative flex tune on E85 so it's still a lot of power.
 


Blkout

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1095
Messages
852
Reactions
1,380
Likes
132
City
Warner Robins
State
GA
Country
United States
Vehicle
2016 Challenger Hellcat
#68
A little cool down with e85. 955/1010
What pulley setup and A8 or M6? I see STD correction was used which is going to rate higher than SAE.
 


AlleyCat

500 Posts Club
9 Second Best E/T
Member ID
#1332
Messages
801
Reactions
724
Likes
82
City
Oro Valley
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
16 HC Challenger
#69
A8- 2.5 pulley
 


coolblue

1000 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1172
Messages
1,577
Reactions
2,695
Likes
162
City
Long Island
State
NY
Country
United States
Vehicle
2019 Redeye
#70

AlleyCat

500 Posts Club
9 Second Best E/T
Member ID
#1332
Messages
801
Reactions
724
Likes
82
City
Oro Valley
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
16 HC Challenger
#71
Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.
 


AlleyCat

500 Posts Club
9 Second Best E/T
Member ID
#1332
Messages
801
Reactions
724
Likes
82
City
Oro Valley
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
16 HC Challenger
#72
Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.
Yeah spinning the supercharger. Lol.
 


coolblue

1000 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1172
Messages
1,577
Reactions
2,695
Likes
162
City
Long Island
State
NY
Country
United States
Vehicle
2019 Redeye
#73
Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.
Eh. 15lbs of boost that's acceptable. I'll let ya slide this time but try and get serious will ya'. :LOL:
 


AlleyCat

500 Posts Club
9 Second Best E/T
Member ID
#1332
Messages
801
Reactions
724
Likes
82
City
Oro Valley
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
16 HC Challenger
#74
Yes Sir! The most dangerous part of that Dyno was going home with the wife as she made me stop at the Phoenix mall.
 


coolblue

1000 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1172
Messages
1,577
Reactions
2,695
Likes
162
City
Long Island
State
NY
Country
United States
Vehicle
2019 Redeye
#75
Yes Sir! The most dangerous part of that Dyno was going home with the wife as she made me stop at the Phoenix mall.
Oh I know that story. You got what u wanted now I'm gonna get what I want. LOL.
 


AlleyCat

500 Posts Club
9 Second Best E/T
Member ID
#1332
Messages
801
Reactions
724
Likes
82
City
Oro Valley
State
AZ
Country
United States
Vehicle
16 HC Challenger
#76
Yep. She said I made you happy. Now it's time to make me happy. I think they are all trained by the same manual.
 


Blkout

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1095
Messages
852
Reactions
1,380
Likes
132
City
Warner Robins
State
GA
Country
United States
Vehicle
2016 Challenger Hellcat
#77
Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.
Ah ok, stroker and 2.50 pulley. That explains the 1010 torque, those extra cubes!
 


Last edited:

MaxCarnage

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
10 Second Best E/T
HFCOTM
Wiki Contributor
Member ID
#979
Messages
500
Reactions
799
Likes
182
City
Spokane Valley
State
WA
Country
United States
Vehicle
19' Redeye
HFCOTM
View Images
#78
So that depends, Curt can leave a safety margin in the flex tune for guys like me that don't check their E85, or you can ask for an aggressive tune that gives you everything that E85 can provide assuming you know the quality of your E85.

My car made 871whp SAE with a 2.65 pulley on a conservative flex tune on E85 so it's still a lot of power.
My E85 source comes from a company that sells it in drums (Made from sugar). I was told if you measure it with an E85 tester it will measure around E89, but the guy said those testers are often off by a few percentage points. He said the best way to test E85 is by weight, but I don't know how to do that or what that even means, lol. They said their source of E85 is very consistent batch to batch. Lots of pure race cars run it. I'm considering a more aggressive tune because of it's consistency, but I would test every drum just in case. However, just not sure if the aggressive tune is worth the extra hp or piece of mind of a safe tune.

Just looking at an E85 conversion for my Redeye, on stock pulley. Thinking flex just in case so I can put some pump in it, but likely I would run E85 all year long (except winter when it's stored). It's only a weekend car so I can justify the mpg loss. All I really want is to run some 9s in great DA/low 10s in mediocre DA. I'll have to ask Curt what he charges for a re-tune just in case in the future I want more power, lol.

Thanks for the info though!

*Edit* Also I know others change their oil more often with E85. Is it still okay to wait 6 months between oil changes? Even if you only run maybe 1k miles in that time period? I've heard others shorten oil changes, but I've heard 3k miles. No mention about if they shorten the length from 6 months to 3 months or something like that.
 


Blkout

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
Donating Member
Member ID
#1095
Messages
852
Reactions
1,380
Likes
132
City
Warner Robins
State
GA
Country
United States
Vehicle
2016 Challenger Hellcat
#79
My E85 source comes from a company that sells it in drums (Made from sugar). I was told if you measure it with an E85 tester it will measure around E89, but the guy said those testers are often off by a few percentage points. He said the best way to test E85 is by weight, but I don't know how to do that or what that even means, lol. They said their source of E85 is very consistent batch to batch. Lots of pure race cars run it. I'm considering a more aggressive tune because of it's consistency, but I would test every drum just in case. However, just not sure if the aggressive tune is worth the extra hp or piece of mind of a safe tune.

Just looking at an E85 conversion for my Redeye, on stock pulley. Thinking flex just in case so I can put some pump in it, but likely I would run E85 all year long (except winter when it's stored). It's only a weekend car so I can justify the mpg loss. All I really want is to run some 9s in great DA/low 10s in mediocre DA. I'll have to ask Curt what he charges for a re-tune just in case in the future I want more power, lol.

Thanks for the info though!

*Edit* Also I know others change their oil more often with E85. Is it still okay to wait 6 months between oil changes? Even if you only run maybe 1k miles in that time period? I've heard others shorten oil changes, but I've heard 3k miles. No mention about if they shorten the length from 6 months to 3 months or something like that.
I was advised to change oil every 3K on E85 so I stick to that and I don't think the amount of time between oil changes matters nearly as much, its really about potential oil contamination which comes from mileage. I've been running E85 primarily for the last 14K miles since my car is a daily driver. I've had my oil tested twice at Blackstone Labs and both times the wear results have been normal. I even went 4K miles on one sample since I got behind on my oil change schedule and the oil sample was still normal. I'm due to change my oil again this upcoming weekend and I will send a third sample to Blackstone so we'll see what this one shows. I missed sending a sample on my previous oil change because I forgot to order more oil sample containers.

Here's a cool picture I posted on the other forum months ago after changing the oil in my car and my wife's Hellcat on the same day. Mine had 3K miles on the oil change (left), my wife's had about 4K miles on her oil change (right) but you can clearly see how much cleaner burning E85 is and its affect on the oil. My oil still looked very clean, my wife's Hellcat which only runs 93 octane looked black which is typically what you see on pump gas engines.

E85 vs Gas.jpg
 


Last edited:

MaxCarnage

500 Posts Club
Founding Member
10 Second Best E/T
HFCOTM
Wiki Contributor
Member ID
#979
Messages
500
Reactions
799
Likes
182
City
Spokane Valley
State
WA
Country
United States
Vehicle
19' Redeye
HFCOTM
View Images
#80
I was advised to chance oil every 3K on E85 so I stick to that and I don't think the amount of time between oil changes matters nearly as much, its really about potential oil contamination which comes from mileage. I've been running E85 primarily for the last 14K miles since my car is a daily driver. I've had my oil tested twice at Blackstone Labs and both times the wear results have been normal. I even went 4K miles on one sample since I got behind on my oil change schedule and the oil sample was still normal. I'm due to change my oil again this upcoming weekend and I will send a third sample to Blackstone so we'll see what this one shows. I missed sending a sample on my previous oil change because I forgot to order more oil sample containers.

Here's a cool picture I posted on the other forum months ago after changing the oil in my car and my wife's Hellcat on the same day. Mine had 3K miles on the oil change (left), my wife's had about 4K miles on her oil change (right) but you can clearly see how much cleaner burning E85 is and its affect on the oil. My oil still looked very clean, my wife's Hellcat which only runs 93 octane looked black which is typically what you see on pump gas engines.

View attachment 3656
All great info. I was at Napa auto supply here locally and on a related oil filter note they told me the mopar filter which is recommended has a 16lb spring in it, and the viper filter (SRT filter some use) has a 12lb spring in it. I'm going to run Schaffers oil now that it's made in 0W-40 (lots of my racer buddies love it) with a Napa gold filter (wix filter) part# 7899 which is equivalent to the Mopar filter (recommend in manual). I found it interesting that the filters have different spring rates though.

That oil looks much cleaner with E85. I'm trying to think of any single reason NOT to run E85, lol. Figure as long as I know the alcohol percentage it should be all good. The benefits seem to outweigh the drawbacks.
 




Top