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Trackhawk is dead no more better grab one while you can

Jack_Toepfer

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AWD? Audi proved, much to my surprise, that a driven wheel uses up more power than a driving one.
Tell that to the dyno numbers... if not the AWD, gearing, or taller tire - why the 80whp difference between the 2?
Audi also has something to gain by proposing that, I'll look into it because I don't know any better, but sounds like a stretch.
 

Jimmy N.

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Notice that I wrote "to my surprise".

Then again, not much earlier we had been testing mileage gains with a full-time GM converted to a basic 4x2/4x4 system with free wheeling hubs.
Thought that there was something wrong with the test equipment, as after numerous tries we were faced with worse mileage than with the full-time setup.

Audi's presentation explained (to me, anyway) why we ended up with the results we did.
 

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I didn't do exhaustive research on the subject, but this is what I found as it relates to drag coefficients across the 3 HCs...
Jeep Grand Cherokee - 0.37
Dodge Charger - 0.35
Dodge Challenger - 0.39

My Dodge Charger HC, at over 5300lbs (4 occupants + luggage), maintained 28mpg over a 4 hour long trek from Buffalo NY to Sandusky OH. Avg speed was ~70mph. Bone stock. 2.62:1 rear gear.
A Trackhawk driving down the road is ~5500lbs.

There is absolutely no way that the negligible increase in c/d makes the MPG suffer so dramatically. The Trackhawk has a 3.70:1 gear ratio, and is AWD. If anything is making the MPG suffer it is the drivetrain losses. When they are on a dyno, the WHP between the cars and the Jeep are ~70-80whp ... that is significant! This isn't a wind tunnel, this is just the effort to put power down to the road.

An AWD Charger HC would suffer the same way a Trackhawk does, because those physics don't lie.
Your are neglecting to factor in the frontal area.

Total calculated drag = frontal area x’s the coefficient of drag.

The TH has a much greater frontal area vs the charger.


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why2kmax

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TH gas mileage is pretty much expected. My 2006 Chevy Trailblazer SS AWD got 9-10 mpg city and I was lucky to see 15-16 highway. and that didnt have nearly the performance of a TH.
 

Jack_Toepfer

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Your are neglecting to factor in the frontal area.
Total calculated drag = frontal area x’s the coefficient of drag.
The TH has a much greater frontal area vs the charger.
Now that my interest is rising, I found a new source for drag and it took some searching but I think I have frontal areas as well.

Frontal area is ~4ft bigger, or 13%.

GC drag = 12.1 (29.5x.41)
HC Drag = 9.8 (25.9x.38)

The GC has 20% more drag, certainly not nothing.

If there is any faith in the dyno numbers, we're showing drivetrain losses that are DOUBLE what the HC has. For example, if your stock HC puts down 645rwhp out of the 707 at the crank... you have 9% loss. When the Trackhawk makes only 575awhp out of the same 707, it's almost 19%. The additional drag of the driveline is causing considerable reduction in power for the amount fuel consumed.

I don't know which is more damaging, but clearly having them together will cause pain at the pump.
 

Thawkmike

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Oh absolutely, 20% is about the norm for a full mechanical front/rear/center awd system like the TH has.


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Jimmy N.

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. The additional drag of the driveline is causing considerable reduction in power for the amount fuel consumed.
I think the AWD is getting a bit more blame than it deserves here. Yes, the transfer case is part of the drivetrain, but it would be interesting to know how much power it consumes all by itself, without any front axle shafts or driveshaft.

And the lower gearing must factor in. I suspect that the ratio was picked based on what would be terminal speed anyway. It's been too long since I drove the 'Cat to remember its rpm vs. speed numbers, but 2,000 rpm must be quite fast. In the 'Hawk, 2,000 is only about 70 mph.
 

Jack_Toepfer

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The TH also has 42lb tires vs 34lb all seasons on the HC.

It all adds up.
 

Jimmy N.

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Yep. Darn run flats. I hope they wear out quickly.
 
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Read this statement and sounds like the Durango has replaced the Trackhawk for the 2021 model year.
'Tis not true, the 2021 Durango Hellcat and 2021 Jeep Trackhawk will both start production this fall. For the Trackhawk, it's the final year of production for the current 'WK2' generation. The Trackhawk will return in the new 'WL' gen, most likely for the 2023 model year. Wouldn't expect many changes for the '21 Hawk vs '20 model year being that it's at the end of current gen. The '21 Durango though will get a mild interior/exterior refresh, including the new 10.1" radios. Should be interesting to see the sales split between Durango and Jeep.
 

Jack_Toepfer

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Are they all sticking with the base Hellcat motor or is everyone getting an upgrade?
 

Jimmy N.

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'Tis not true, the 2021 Durango Hellcat and 2021 Jeep Trackhawk will both start production this fall.
At this point, I don't care all that much. Brought the new '20 home yesterday.
 
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