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ChargerChallenger

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#2
MSN writing this concerns me personally and its a rehash from February 2nd so really nothing new. And Damn I HATE MSN just like well yeh you know like the Sleepy Ass guy in a shirt and tie😁
 

Hellcatcfp

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#3
EPA approved...bring it on!
 

MikeD1

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#5
Hmm, take an already complicated machine & add an additional drive system (electric motors, batteries etc.) :unsure:
Maybe they can make it reliable ......................... in time ;)
 

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#6
IMO, it is all BS, nothing in the current drivetrain can handle 1,000 HP with a warranty, plus I think CAFE standards lower next year. Can anyone confirm this?
 

Speedy!

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#7
Buddy of mine is a tech and said at recent transmission classes they're talking about electric motors replacing the torque converter.
 

cole3986

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#8
January 14, 2021: NHTSA interim final rule adjusts the CAFE civil penalty rate to $14 beginning in model year 2022; if the August 31, 2020, decision of the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in Case No. 19-2395 is vacated, however, the rate will remain at $5.50 instead.

Sorry, I meant the fines/requirements are raising next year.
 

cole3986

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#9
Buddy of mine is a tech and said at recent transmission classes they're talking about electric motors replacing the torque converter.
Speedy,

The LX platform is what 15 + years old, FCA (or whatever the new abbreviation is with Peug.) is milking this platform, imo, nothing new will be introduced in this platform, I am surprised that the hellcat is offered in 2021, the writing is on the wall
 

Piening2150

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#10
Buddy of mine is a tech and said at recent transmission classes they're talking about electric motors replacing the torque converter.
Speedy,

The LX platform is what 15 + years old, FCA (or whatever the new abbreviation is with Peug.) is milking this platform, imo, nothing new will be introduced in this platform, I am surprised that the hellcat is offered in 2021, the writing is on the wall
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28324752/fiat-chrysler-hybrid-ready-zf-transmissions/

https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_55041.html
 

cole3986

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#11
That is ham and egg, max torque is 1,000 NM which is 737 Foot pounds, not going to get anywhere near 1,000 HP, this is like the etorque in the 5.7 hemi. The ZF center section breaks with 840 HP. Again the whole drivetrain cannot handle, no way they are going to spend the money and on a platform that is 15+ years old and much too heavy.

Look at the Durango with hellcat motor, why the delay in building it? What about the 2021 Trackhawk? The delay, imo, is that, everything is changing, I would not be surprised if there are no hellcat motors in anything in 2022.
 

Speedy!

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#12

Magnified

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#14
I think th
That is ham and egg, max torque is 1,000 NM which is 737 Foot pounds, not going to get anywhere near 1,000 HP, this is like the etorque in the 5.7 hemi. The ZF center section breaks with 840 HP. Again the whole drivetrain cannot handle, no way they are going to spend the money and on a platform that is 15+ years old and much too heavy.

Look at the Durango with hellcat motor, why the delay in building it? What about the 2021 Trackhawk? The delay, imo, is that, everything is changing, I would not be surprised if there are no hellcat motors in anything in 2022.
I think they will ride this dog and pony show into the ground. Hellcat powerplants will be around until 2024 I would think. But that's just me.
 

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#15
I'd guess longer than that to be honest. Gas Guzzler tax may go up on them but as long as they sell they'll keep putting them out. Then there's another election in 2024 as well so who knows after that.
 

MikeD1

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#16
They haven't even officially released the Wagoneer & Grand Wagoneer's yet, but they're slated to get the 5.7L Hemi (with the e-tranny) and the 6.4L Hemi respectively ! No mention of the Hellcat motor in either right now, but I could see them doing it as a 'limited run - special edition' thing before the lights go out.
 

Magnified

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#17
That will depend on what the wagoneer average fuel economy figures are. Limited to 2000 on the durango bc of it impact on CAFE compliance. If they can sell a huge fleet of 4 and 6 cylinder eco trims that frees up the top range for hellcat motors.
 

cole3986

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#18
If the CAFE standards raise, as it appears, FCA has a serious problem. In the past they bought credits from Tesla to meet the corporate average, Tesla has no more credits to sell. IMO, this is a big problem and could kill the supercharged platform. Ram is been playing games on the availability of the 5.7 hemi in the 1500 for the past couple of years, I do believe only the 5.7 etorque is an option in 2021 Ram 1,500's, why? gas mileage as the 1500 is counted in the corporate mileage, whereas the 2,500, 3,500, and up are not.

It is always good until, boom it is not. Don't say you were not warned, the writing is on the wall

In addition, a 2015 Hellcat cost about 68K fully loaded, what is a 2021 Hellcat full loaded costing? over 100K. The number of buyers, dries up for 100K + muscle cars, IMO.

Everyone enjoy what you have, I hope I am wrong, I do.
 

Magnified

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#19
Regular HCs are averaging over 100K? F-that. If that's the deal I'll spring for an extra 12 and grab an RS6
 

Piening2150

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#20
If the CAFE standards raise, as it appears, FCA has a serious problem. In the past they bought credits from Tesla to meet the corporate average, Tesla has no more credits to sell. IMO, this is a big problem and could kill the supercharged platform. Ram is been playing games on the availability of the 5.7 hemi in the 1500 for the past couple of years, I do believe only the 5.7 etorque is an option in 2021 Ram 1,500's, why? gas mileage as the 1500 is counted in the corporate mileage, whereas the 2,500, 3,500, and up are not.

It is always good until, boom it is not. Don't say you were not warned, the writing is on the wall

In addition, a 2015 Hellcat cost about 68K fully loaded, what is a 2021 Hellcat full loaded costing? over 100K. The number of buyers, dries up for 100K + muscle cars, IMO.

Everyone enjoy what you have, I hope I am wrong, I do.
Plenty of '21 non-ET Hemi 1500s available out there. What do you mean 'playing games' with the Hemi for years? Besides supplier issues I've never seen any availability problems with the V8 in the 1500. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if ET became temporarily unavailable due to the microchip shortage. GM is now shipping trucks without AFM (and consequently with slightly worse MPG) for that very reason. If they were really gonna clamp down on MPG they'd limit availability to the V6s (your choice of gas or diesel), nix the Hemi altogether, and tell you to buy a 2500 if you want a V8.

A fully loaded '21 Challenger HC is a bit more expensive than the '15 but it's currently only about $76k. Actually, adjusted for inflation, that's almost identical to $68k in '15. A fully loaded WB RE (or SS) on the other hand can run 100k, but that's not exactly apples to apples. You can't expect the addition of the widebody, +90 HP, or the other newer features that weren't available back then to sell for the same price as a '15.

You are correct though that CAFE standards will go up, the V8s days are numbered, and Stellantis will be in trouble if they can't buy those credits from somewhere unfortunately. Just read yesterday that Audi is no longer putting any R&D into new ICE power trains. They're not the first, and they won't be the last to make that jump. 😫 Definitely enjoy them while you still can.
 
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