Manual Transmissions Are The Best!

[1971demon]

Not bad for a Yankee, not bad.

lol...I do have my moments

 

[HemiPacer]

I won’t get into the which transmission is best argument because everyone has a different set of circumstances, for me my Challenger is the wife’s daily drive and we use it for road trips and I drag race it every chance I get .
Is the A8 faster than a stick car , in my experience with 400 odd passes in this car and the drag strips around here being like a dodge dealership I’d say there is no argument that they are . Stick cars even have there own class so the guys can compete . As an example I have a mate that is a real gun in a M6 392 car that’s had plenty of success at the track winning a year long series a couple of years back , he has now added a pro charger to the car for a significant power gain ( can’t remember how much 100-200 , a lot ) and my A 8 still has him covered. I have a A8SRT 392 and he has a M6 Scat . I love racing M6 Hellcats because they have to get it right to beat me and that takes some driving skill , most times they do and go past me like a train just before the line ( dam it ) .

 

[hellno]

Our A8 has manual mode to satisfy the guys who want a manual 😃

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Apparently, so is watching video LOL.



No, not really clear and I literally thought you were joking as you've proven yourself an educated individual. Find me one single case where an M6 Hellcat is faster than the A8 that isn't some odd ball comparison. I literally went from an M6 built/Supercharged Challenger to my A8 Hellcat, no practice no nothing and ran a 10.51 at 131MPH bone stock my second pass on a tire in the Hellcat A8. First time to the track. Hot lapped to a 10.59 I think. No practice no nothing. How hard is it LOL. My buddy put his wife in his and she ran a 10.7x. That's the thing with these A8 cars, they just work and you don't have to be John Force to get there. I had 10 YEARS of experience racing an M6 man, c'mon. Unlike most I post video of my successes (and failures).

I learned long ago that the M6 cars are technically limited. My data logs showed the throttle actually closes at every shift and I flat footed the accelerator. It's a built in thing as soon as the clutch goes in, throttle closes. Good luck overcoming that, not to mention all the other BS you have to deal with in an M6 like balancing on the clutch at the lights, hoping the diff, clutch, drive shaft, or trans doesn't explode when you launch, and watching the tach and the lights, not missing any gears, etc. My buddy Chad who was a die hard M6 guy threw in the towel at the end of the season when he saw me run 9s with minimal mods and he had everything and the kitchen sink and was running 10.1s in his M6 (awesome driver and a feat!). He put his M6 back to stock and has ordered an A8 Redeye.



LOL, yeah those granny shifts get ya for sure

Not trying to get in the middle of this one, i can agree it does take a skilled driver to make good times rowing your own and like said a novice in a auto can beat a equal if not greater HP stick car even with an experienced driver, beating today’s automation is tough.

But, My throttle doesn’t close when I push the clutch in? It’ll rev to the limiter if I push the clutch in floored, I’ve missed Third a few times before upgrading to the Barton. You positive on this?

 

[MaxCarnage]

Tnx, real info.
On your comment 1-3 gearing on M6, do you mean the 1st to 2nd lockout that only occurs with such shifts if they occur, i think, between 19 and 21 mph?

Nope, I'm talking about the long gearing ratios for 1-3 gears with the M6. The only real way to shorten the gear ratio is to change the transmission gearing. You can go from the stock 3.70 rear to the 392's 3.90 diff but it doesn't make enough difference to really matter. I was launching my M6 around 4500rpm just to get that slug out of the hole. I can launch my A8 at 1500rpm-1800rpm and run 3 tenths faster in 60ft alone. I heard the M6 does better with a bias tire, but I prefer to run a radial because it keeps me in street classes.

The lockout issue you are referring to might be the skip shift feature that happens under low speeds. You can get a delete for that as well. I also recommend deleting the CDV and grabbing a Barton too. The Barton made a world of difference and helped for much more positive shifts, especially for 3rd gear. The Hellcat is a great power plant, but power delivery is important too. The A8 couples great with the Hellcat. The M6 just feels like Dodge pulled it straight out of the viper, did minimal work to make sure it fit, then called it good.

If you've never driven an A8, you should at least try it. I mean really drive it! Put that trans in track, hold the left shift paddle, stomp your foot to the floor, and watch that car drop 3-4 gears and just eat up the road. It's a blast to say the least!

 

[HemiPacer]

You guys with M6s and drag racing are using the clutch ?
I thought you manly men would be power shifting that bad boy .

 

[MaxCarnage]

I won’t get into the which transmission is best argument because everyone has a different set of circumstances, for me my Challenger is the wife’s daily drive and we use it for road trips and I drag race it every chance I get .
Is the A8 faster than a stick car , in my experience with 400 odd passes in this car and the drag strips around here being like a dodge dealership I’d say there is no argument that they are . Stick cars even have there own class so the guys can compete . As an example I have a mate that is a real gun in a M6 392 car that’s had plenty of success at the track winning a year long series a couple of years back , he has now added a pro charger to the car for a significant power gain ( can’t remember how much 100-200 , a lot ) and my A 8 still has him covered. I have a A8SRT 392 and he has a M6 Scat . I love racing M6 Hellcats because they have to get it right to beat me and that takes some driving skill , most times they do and go past me like a train just before the line ( dam it ) .

That's just how sad the M6 is imo. That an A8 392 is so close in ET to an M6 Hellcat, is just wrong. Plenty of piss poor M6 drivers at my local track getting stomped by a 392 A8s. With driver skill the M6 will out run them, but considering how close of a race it is, is rather sad. The M6 in a Hellcat just wastes power.

 

[MaxCarnage]

Reading is hard.

No, I am not joking. Park the fucking conjecture and anecdotal bullshit and prove it or it didn't happen.

The mechanical and technical advantages of the A8 or any automatic transmission aren't lost on me. All of my other toys are auto. What is also apparent to me is the distinct lack of talent in the driver's seats of A8 Hellcats. There are just so many videos of poorly piloted stock A8 HCs out there that it is painfully obvious the driver mod is fucking lacking hard around here. Which brings us all down. It is embarrassing.

So to sit here claiming A8 superiority without proof is complete and utter bullshit. Typical A8 drivers suck at driving in a performance scenario. The onus is now on them to prove me wrong.

Clear enough?

You will see lots more bad A8 drivers in videos because their are simply just more people buying the A8 vs M6. What 25% of Challenger Hellcats are M6s? You are seeing lots of people who are buying a 700+hp car that have never driven anything fast like that in their life. So they go to the track with stock tires, and just slam the pedal to the floor not understanding what they are doing. Does it make Hellcat owners look bad? Sure. But not any more so than a M6 driver that runs 13s or slower, lol. With a decent driver the A8 will run faster than the M6, that has been proven time and time again. Nothing can be done to prevent new or bad drivers from driving poorly.

Times have changed, the typical non racers used to drive the old slush box autos and the racers would drive the manuals. Now that the autos are the go to for performance racing you will get both non racers buying them (because it's an auto) and racers who want that performance. So there will be a mix of good and bad drivers.

I've proven with my track slips that the A8 is superior. I don't need thousands of videos or slips to show me something I've had first hand experience with. Have you actually raced either?

 

[SilverBillet]

I have to believe that most people who want a 700+ hp car have some experience drag racing in the past?

 

[motorhead]

driver skill can vary case by case.

Then how can any HC owner claim outright A8 supremacy, if despite the technical achievements, they themselves are the limiting factor in a race?

Apparently, so is watching video LOL.

Unfortunately I wasn't going to struggle to watch a video in an NHL arena when I was busy watching pro hockey with my oldest kid. Priorities. Sorry, not sorry.

No, not really clear and I literally thought you were joking as you've proven yourself an educated individual. Find me one single case where an M6 Hellcat is faster than the A8 that isn't some odd ball comparison.

Continuing my point above:

A race. That is the key concept here. Not a time slip (when looking at ET and/or MPH in isolation) or stand alone lap time; just like a dyno those do not qualify as a recognized form of competition. But, a race. Where the human factor has to be applied (there are things like reaction times that come into play). The question wasn't can you produce a perfect time slip on the perfect day with no outside pressures on your performance. No it was: Are you quicker/faster than the person in the like car (stock for stock) who has to row their own gears?

The root of this debate, which I assume will continue to plague us, is the number of stock A8 vs. M6 HC races is extremely finite. Meaning that despite 35,000 HCs sold to roughly 350,000,000 people the odds of actually determining which is the better car in a race is relatively improbable given that ratio. As such the idiocy of parroting spec sheets or claiming performance achievements set by other is embarrassing for the little people who clutch on to such trivial things and give them merit in fear of being exposed as the frauds they are.

Money cannot buy talent, but it can by an A8 Hellcat.

This isn't to suggest that there aren't talented stock A8 HC drivers, they are just about as rare as talented M6 owners.

I learned long ago that the M6 cars are technically limited. My data logs showed the throttle actually closes at every shift and I flat footed the accelerator. It's a built in thing as soon as the clutch goes in, throttle closes. Good luck overcoming that, not to mention all the other BS you have to deal with in an M6 like balancing on the clutch at the lights, hoping the diff, clutch, drive shaft, or trans doesn't explode when you launch, and watching the tach and the lights, not missing any gears, etc.

So then we agree that a talented M6 driver could win a race over a novice A8 pilot. Seems fair to me. The A8 is like the participation trophy of the HC world: no risk, all reward just for showing up.

Personally, I am looking forward to having my ass handed to me by the single fastest stock A8 HC in the world next Spring. And I will accept that beat down; but, it will be in race not just a benign time slip comparison.



.

 

[motorhead]

Not sure @Speedy experience would be considered anecdotal. Case by case situations can differ with driver vs driver, etc? Where is your proof with a sample size large enough to prove anything? If I missed it then I apologize, but no need to be hostile towards other members' experiences. I think you will find there is no definitive answer because driver skill can vary case by case.

No one is questioning @Speedy! or his accomplishments. I am calling out all the other nut swingers who haven't accomplished jack shit and are claiming supremacy simply because they checked the A8 box. You call it hostility, I am just clearing the air of this ripe stench of manure for those who claim A8 this and that... without ever leaving the comfort of their couch to prove it. Stock for stock, the rule of thumb between an A8 and M6 is 3 tenths of a second in the A8's favour - in a race that advantage easily evaporates at the tree.

 

[JRabq]

Tnx to all. Once again, alot of great info from the passionate on this site!
I've been looking at a site:
www.automobile-catalog.com
Interesting charts on M6 and A8 (2.62 rear). Can compare final drive ratios with each in the lowest gear mechanically allowable, through speeds 0-max. Pretty interesting really given all the harsh M6 comments.

 

[HemiPacer]

No one is questioning @Speedy! or his accomplishments. I am calling out all the other nut swingers who haven't accomplished jack shit and are claiming supremacy simply because they checked the A8 box. You call it hostility, I am just clearing the air of this ripe stench of manure for those who claim A8 this and that... without ever leaving the comfort of their couch to prove it. Stock for stock, the rule of thumb between an A8 and M6 is 3 tenths of a second in the A8's favour - in a race that advantage easily evaporates at the tree.

I don’t know where you got the 3 tenths figure but that A8 driver must have been scratching his balls . Just when you think the manual drivers are having more fun .

 

[WhipCat]

Modern cars.

automatic is faster
Manual is slower.
Fact

if you wanna win. Get an auto.
For old guys with nostalgia, I see the need for a manual.
One of my cars is a manual. They are fun to drive. But not gonna keep up when the money counts.

 

[motorhead]

Modern cars.

automatic is faster
Manual is slower.
Fact

if you wanna win. Get an auto.
For old guys with nostalgia, I see the need for a manual.
One of my cars is a manual. They are fun to drive. But not gonna keep up when the money counts.

Automatic transmission do not equal autonomous driving cars. That lump in the driver's seat still has a huge role to play and is controlled by the lump between their ears.

 

[WhipCat]

Automatic transmission do not equal autonomous driving cars. That lump in the driver's seat still has a huge role to play and is controlled by the lump between their ears.

manuals vs auto. The manual will lose.
There is no comparison on the capability.
You may have the absolute best stick driver vs a anyone. And the stick driver will never keep up, except the odd chance it has more power and they hit the shifts with absolute perfection every time.

they are obsolete in the quest for the fastest car.

 

[Decay]

The controversy rages on!
Sheesh!
I can't wait for the track to open back up.

 

[WhipCat]

The controversy rages on!
Sheesh!
I can't wait for the track to open back up.

there is no controversy. It’s already been done. Bring a knife to a gunfight and see the results.

unless your the minion mustang lol

 

[SilverBillet]

There is no doubt that the A8, especially the specially prepped ones in our supercharged cars, is a race trans. The M6 is not. A stock M6 may win a race against an A8 occasionally but that does not mean it is as good for drag racing as an A8. Arguing the fact is futile.

 

[WhipCat]

There is no doubt that the A8, especially the specially prepped ones in our supercharged cars, is a race trans. The M6 is not. A stock M6 may win a race against an A8 occasionally but that does not mean it is as good for drag racing as an A8. Arguing the fact is futile.

110%
M6 is allot of fun, or any manual car for that matter. If anyone is actually putting up an argument for the contrary is smoking some good stuff.

ive seen manual car pull on my car before and seen other races where manual wins. But the power to weight and Tons of other variables are in favor of the manual car for it to be competitive.

Just how the car is setup etc plays the major role.